tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5403931334822730200.post2607483107601706427..comments2024-03-27T01:21:03.543-07:00Comments on Yowp: Another Perspective on the Decline of H-B AnimationYowphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09264605351878574044noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5403931334822730200.post-23898883482393474292020-09-02T04:03:54.180-07:002020-09-02T04:03:54.180-07:00Like several others here, I , too, grew up on watc...Like several others here, I , too, grew up on watching some Hanna-Barbera cartoons. Several of those I grew up on watching I may not be in any rush to re-watch as an adult now, but there are other shows I didn't watch nor know about in my childhood. In recent years, I checked out some of those I didn't watch as a youngster, but all that I have bothered to check out as an adult (such as the first two Teen Force segments of Space Stars, Drak Pack, and Galtar and The Golden Lance, among others), I've enjoyed, and what I consider to be among the best the studio ever made. I think I made the right choices when I decided what to try. Others I didn't see as a kid ( like CB Bears, Paw Paws, and Pink Panther & Sons), I still haven't tried as an adult, but I read about them. Some of those that I read about don't interest me, there are certain HB shows I don't/won't care to watch, unless they were featured in video reviews. Some HB shows I like more than others, so I'm not a completist. I tend to lean towards the literary adaptations more, especially my most favorite HB show from my childhood, CBS Storybreak, another better series. I wouldn't learn until years later why the production quality of some T.V. cartoons in general are better than others that it all had to do with budget. I used to think the staff and crew who worked on the shows just did their thing and got paid for it. I had no idea financial support was involved in the presentations of them. I also wonder how networks got involved in having a say on how the shows should be, unless they also happened to be studios, like Nickelodeon, and why. I guess what I'm trying to say is, while HB may not had been the most consistent studio as far as quality went, I'd still watch, at least, some HB shows rather than anything by Video Brinquedo, Spark Plug Entertainment, and Dingo Pictures. I know this upcoming fact I'm about to mention is not really true, but because of the decline of the studio, some adults may believe that there are no kids' cartoons worthy enough for adults to enjoy as well. But fortunately, we've come a long way since then. However, this was an insightful read. HB did make some stuff I'm more fond of than others, so it's not a complete loss for my viewership. Basically, there are some HB shows I like and find value in them from just above every decade.Dawalkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07005835948537996583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5403931334822730200.post-66485893482200653272013-11-19T04:12:55.998-08:002013-11-19T04:12:55.998-08:00I really liked those Hanna-Barbera Cartoons from t...I really liked those Hanna-Barbera Cartoons from the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. My most favorite cartoons from the 80s are Shirt Tales and The Snorks. My most favorite cartoons from the 70s are Clue Club, Butch Cassidy and Jabberjaw. Until then, we'll see you guys on August 22, 2014.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5403931334822730200.post-6169948609706276412012-02-20T09:34:01.779-08:002012-02-20T09:34:01.779-08:00I come across the "this is a business" a...I come across the "this is a business" attitude before. To me, it DOESN'T excuse shoddy workmanship. William Holden in "EXECUTIVE SUITE" said, near the end of the film, "You can't expect people to work JUST for money." He was talking about having PRIDE in your work.<br /><br />The people who did THUNDARR THE BARBARIAN did it at the height of censorship, and found ways around it. It was, simply, on every single level, the BEST cartoon produced for Saturday morning since the 1st season of SPIDER-MAN (1967), and almost on a level with the prime-time JONNY QUEST (1964). Oh yeah, and of course, Ruby-Spears was mostly made up of HB veterans, who did want to create a better product. The simple fact that THUNDARR was renewed for a 2nd season shows they succeeded. (Why the show ended after only 21 episodes is a whole other, throroughly twisted story, however.)<br /><br />Interesting running across Ray Patterson's name, since he was one of the people behind the 1967 SPIDER-MAN, a show which, for one year, totally blew away everything Hanna-Barbera was doing. When I found out Grantray-Lawrence went BANKRUPT (one episode into the 2nd season of the show), I always figured it was because they'd sunk too much money into the animation. Close, but not quite. Turns out June Patterson was the story editor, and actually commissioned different versions of EVERY script from their writing team, then picked the best one. No wonder the writing was SO GOOD! But THAT, apparently, was what pushed them over the edge, and the company went belly-up. I wonder what her husband thought about it, at the time?Henry R. Kujawahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01607373491331529952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5403931334822730200.post-26509981206275930762010-07-20T12:05:11.293-07:002010-07-20T12:05:11.293-07:00Neither animators nor voice artists [as I always s...Neither animators nor voice artists [as I always say], and I don't even mean celebs, nor anything could save pieces of [fill in YOUR personal fave-rave plural expletive,folks] by the 1970s.:wink:Pokeyhttp://sjcarrasblog.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5403931334822730200.post-31566613069617276112010-02-24T22:22:09.771-08:002010-02-24T22:22:09.771-08:00Like I said in the earlier thread, when you look a...Like I said in the earlier thread, when you look at late 1961, with two prime-time shows airing, one in development, three different syndicated shows (containing nine different character episodes) going for the good people at Kellogg's and another 30-minute syndicated package in the works, and you could already start to see the studio being stretched too thin. They actually had a little less overall work for the next couple of years after that and the quality took a little step up in terms of imagniation around 1964 or so, but once the studio committed to the Saturday morning cartoon lineup (and had to start taking creative 'suggestions' from the network suits), that was just about it for Hanna-Barbera as a creative force (although as profitable marketing tool for the kiddies, they still had about another 25 years to run).J Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15175515543694122729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5403931334822730200.post-32409953832044359312010-02-24T20:02:40.687-08:002010-02-24T20:02:40.687-08:00Loopy made some good points. The increased volume ...Loopy made some good points. The increased volume of output most certainly had a direct impact on the quality of H-B's animation. In my opinion, Bill and Joe produced their best shows when the studio was much smaller, and when they had fewer cartoons in production and more creative control. That all changed with the demand for more shows, the sale of the studio to Taft Broadcasting, and the increased interference of the television networks in creative matters.<br /> <br />How did the veteran animators feel about the H-B shows they were working on? One animator I knew at the H-B studio spoke more fondly of his days as an assistant animator in Chuck Jones' unit at Warner Bros. Cartoons than of his early days at H-B. At another studio, I heard a former H-B artist say how much he hated working on Squiddley Diddley. I think it was probably a mixed bag. Some enjoyed working for Hanna-Barbera, others did not. I certainly did.MARK CHRISTIANSENhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07313957747157833979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5403931334822730200.post-81930122475089805112010-02-24T19:07:43.166-08:002010-02-24T19:07:43.166-08:00The effects of cost-cutting were more obvious in n...The effects of cost-cutting were more obvious in new cartoon shows of the 1960s and beyond than in the commercials that sponsored them. The likes of Cap'n Crunch, Sam Toucan, Quisp, Quake, and the Trix Rabbit had better animation and snappier dialogue than the characters in "Sky Hawks," "Hot Wheels" or "The Perils of Penelope Pitstop." This ploy of putting more stimulus in the messages than in the medium worked -- a nephew of mine at 16 months would watch a cartoon like Casper or Pooh half-heartedly but give every cereal, fast-food and toy commercial his undivided attention.Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17446855706531749726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5403931334822730200.post-53539391227275072182010-02-24T14:20:07.069-08:002010-02-24T14:20:07.069-08:00Many thanks to Cris C. and Mark C for their though...Many thanks to Cris C. and Mark C for their thoughts. I totally understand why people get down on some of the HB product. But when so many other factors come in to play with how a show gets developed and what eventually gets aired, I still feel it's unfair for people to lay the blame squarely on Hanna and Barbera's shoulders. Thanks for expressing, in much better terms, what I have been trying to say. And thanks to Yowp for allowing all viewpoints on this matter, even if they differ from his.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5403931334822730200.post-18227062912761595932010-02-24T12:58:44.845-08:002010-02-24T12:58:44.845-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.MARK CHRISTIANSENhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07313957747157833979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5403931334822730200.post-48927030426254615342010-02-24T08:08:54.639-08:002010-02-24T08:08:54.639-08:00Yowp, to answer your question regarding what the &...Yowp, to answer your question regarding what the "old timers" thought of the early HB stuff, I do have an anecdote. I remember when Cartoon Network was starting up and they were airing the old HB cartoons. "Snagglepuss" aired one morning as I was getting ready for my job at HB and it struck me as funny. I can't remember why, or what short I watched but it did make me laugh. I saw Ray Patterson's name on the credit and since my office was close to his, I stopped in one morning and told him how it made me laugh. His response to me? "Oh geez, we thought those were such shit when we were doing them." I was a bit taken aback because to me, Snagglepuss was part of my childhood and a cherished memory -- as all HB programs were, good or bad. But, Ray came from a rich, full animation background and the shortcuts needed at that time to produce the animation on a TV budget is what he disliked.<br /><br />I will always cherish the HB studios. I never thought that every show was a hit, nor did I think -- even as a kid -- that every show had impeccable production qualities. But there was something about them, whether it be the music, voices, character designs, background styling, etc., that I found appealing to watch and listen to. I still do. I buy a lot of the DVDs from a purely nostalgic standpoint and of course, as an adult will cringe at times over the poor animation. But I can watch and be entertained. I can't do the same when I am watching other studios' material, Filmation and Dic in particular.<br /><br />I can appreciate others' opinions about the HB product and their dislike for them, or their opinions about when and how the studio declined. I guess what I don't understand is the anger I read in some posts. I've worked in animation for many years, and some of those years include real clunkers. But never once did we sit at our tables and ask ourselves at the beginning of the day, "Hmmmm -- what shit can I produce today?" LOL! Of course we knew the scripts stunk, so we did our best to make the designs, direction, and production rise above it. We didn't always succeed.<br /><br />I think it's also important to point out, that the networks had a lot of input into what a show became and if HB didn't cowtow to their demands a show didn't get on. So, Joe Barbera changed the show to get it sold. Is that a bad thing? Is that selling out? I don't think so. As LoopydLoop said, he had a corporation to answer to, so he did what he had to to get a show on the air. I'm not sure why he's being chastised for that. Margaret Loesch told a funny stoy -- the details of which escape me right now, about how "Casper and the Angels" was created. It came from a network pitch meeting where Joe Barbera had a dozen or so presentation boards laid out, and the NBC network executive picked and choose which pieces from 3 different boards she liked. Nom de plum! (To quote Yogi) A (really really bad) show was born.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com